CNN Late Edition With Wolf Blitzer - Transcript

CNN

SHOW: CNN LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER 12:00

February 29, 2004 Sunday

HEADLINE: Interview With John Edwards; Interview With Guy Phillipe

GUESTS: Dianne Feinstein, David Dreier, Mitt Romney, Lindsey Graham, Kenneth Starr, Alan Derschowitz, Benjamin Netanyahu, Guy Phillipe

BYLINE: Wolf Blitzer, Lucia Newman, Suzanne Malveaux, Candy Crowley

BLITZER: Candy Crowley reporting from New York.

Candy, thank you very much.

Let's get back to the Haiti story right now. One word we keep hearing, chaos. And one question: What role will the U.S. and other countries now play to try to stabilize Haiti?

Joining us, two leading members of the United States Congress, both from California: In San Francisco, Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein. She serves on the Intelligence Committee. Here in Washington Republican Congressman David Dreier. He's a member of the House Homeland Committee, as well as chairman of the Rules Committee.

Welcome to "LATE EDITION."

Senator Feinstein, let me begin with you. What do you believe the United States must do now in Haiti?

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: See that peace is maintained, see that security is stable. I think move rapidly. I think there has to be an international peacekeeping force.

I happen to believe the United Nations that this is the perfect case for U.N. action. But I mean, it has to take place within hours. And if I were the head of this new government, I would ask for help right away before things get out-really out of control.

BLITZER: Congressman Dreier, it's clear the Bush administration pushed Aristide to leave. Was that wise? He was, after all, elected by the people of Haiti.

REP. DAVID DREIER ®, CALIFORNIA: Wolf, he was elected but he's been a lightning rod. You can go back to the parliamentary elections in 2000 there, which were problematic. We know that there have been a pattern-we've seen a pattern of problems there.

I agree with Dianne, that a stabilization force is the right thing to do, coupled with a U.N.-an international group that will deal with this.

It's obviously a very, very troubling situation as we listen to Lucia's report there. You know, there is real uncertainty and Ambassador Foley clearly has reported that, as well.

BLITZER: You want U.S. Marines, U.S. troops directly involved in that volatile situation?

DREIER: Well, at this point I think the White House is making that decision. And Dianne is correct, it should be made within hours. But I believe that this matter is serious enough now, if you look at 8 million people in Haiti, it's one that does need to be addressed. And I do think that the departure of Aristide does, in fact, as you said in your questioning of Lucia, raise this prospect that we can, in fact, see many of the problems behind us.

BLITZER: Senator Feinstein, you want American troops in Haiti?

FEINSTEIN: If need be, yes. I think so, because I think you're going to have anarchy that's going to result in the death of thousands of people. I think you'll have a flood of immigrants with nowhere to go. It could be a potentially catastrophic situation, and we know this situation. You know, it's kind of been there, done that, but you've got to get there early before insurrection grows.

DREIER: I think that decision is going to be made within a matter of hours.

BLITZER: That U.S. troops will participate?

DREIER: Well, I mean, it certainly is appearing that way and obviously, with an international group as well with the United Nations.

BLITZER: That's what the U.S. ambassador in Haiti is calling for.

Congressman Dreier, I spoke Friday with President Aristide, now I guess former President Aristide. It was clear he wanted to stay.

Listen to what he said to me on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE, FORMER PRESIDENT OF HAITI: I have the responsibility, as an elected president, to stay where I am protecting the people the way I am, the way I can asking the U.S., the international community to stand against terrorists; and it's possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That was followed yesterday by a statement from the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan. He said this. He said, "This long simmering crisis is largely of Mr. Aristide's making. His own actions have called into question his fitness to continue to govern Haiti. We urge him to examine his position carefully, to accept responsibility and to act in the best interests of the people of Haiti." He has now since left.

We heard from Charlie Rangel, congressman from New York, this morning, other members of the Congressional Black Caucus, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, that the Bush administration participated in what they're calling this coup d'etat in Haiti.

DREIER: That's absolutely ridiculous. If you look at where we're going, everyone acknowledged that there were problems surrounding President Aristide.

DREIER: And I believe that a correct course has been taken. President Aristide said one thing in his interview with you on Friday, but obviously the circumstance got to the point-the circumstances got to the point where it was very, very clear that with the tyranny that was existing in the streets, and is existing at this moment in the streets, that his departure was the right thing to do.

And I believe now we do have an opportunity to move ahead with the kind of international community support which is going to be necessary to bring about the kind of stabilization that we need.

BLITZER: We heard from in this debate that just occurred, Senator Feinstein, from both Senator Edwards and Senator Kerry, strong criticism of the Bush administration for the way it's handled or mishandled the situation in Haiti. Do you share that criticism?

FEINSTEIN: Yes, I share it because Aristide had become a lightning rod. This has been clear for some time now. And the situation has just gotten worse, and worse, and worse. I do think the administration did the right thing in terms of encouraging Aristide to go.

Fortunately, the Haitian constitution does have a line of succession that's clear. I, frankly, hope that the rebels will subside, but I would be doubtful that that would happen. Therefore, I think the presence, a strong presence is really what is required right now.

BLITZER: Senator...

FEINSTEIN: And to dilly-dally could be a tragic mistake.

DREIER: That's not going to happen.

BLITZER: Senator Feinstein, Senator Feinstein, the president earlier in the week also urged Haitians not to get on boats and try to reach U.S. shores, saying the U.S. Coast Guard, the U.S. Navy would simply send them back. Do you support that policy?

FEINSTEIN: Well, I think this is extraordinarily difficult. One of the problems is that very large numbers have come in the past, and it presented a number of difficulties. I think the best thing is to quickly move to secure the situation so people don't have to flee their homes.

You've got a highly armed society over there. It's a very volatile society. It is clearly fermented by a rebel culture that has built up over the past several years, and as I said, Aristide has become a lightning rod. He's been unable to handle it.

DREIER: Wolf, let me just say that, obviously, it's interesting to have John Kerry criticize the president on what he called disengagement. We know this administration has been extremely engaged, and just by your question and, frankly, the departure of Aristide, it's clear the United States did encourage that.

John Kerry is the one who in the mid-1990s voted for a $1.1 billion cut in human intelligence. And that's why I think that it's very, very wrong. And we saw his speech on this terrorism issue that he made on Friday. I mean, in this speech, when he started criticizing the president on the war on terrorism, when we've gone, since September 11th, without an attack on the United States of America. We are winning on the war on terrorism. We've got a long way to go, but we are winning it.

BLITZER: We're going to pick up all that. I want both of you to stand by, because we're only getting started here on "LATE EDITION." Much more to talk about. We're going to take a quick break.

When we come back, also, your phone calls for Senator Dianne Feinstein and Congressman David Dreier.

And later, a special conversation with Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards about his strategy for trying to win on Super Tuesday.

Also, the president of Haiti steps down. Will the U.S. step in? We'll talk with Florida Senator Bob Graham.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Still to come, our special interview with the Democratic presidential candidate, John Edwards.

And our Web question of the week is this: Should the U.S. Constitution be amended to effectively ban same-sex marriages? Go to cnn.com/lateedition to cast your vote. We'll tell you the results later in "LATE EDITION."

"LATE EDITION" will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to "LATE EDITION." We're continuing our conversation with California Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein and California Republican Congressman David Dreier.

Senator Feinstein, you're a member of the Intelligence Committee. We keep getting hints, nuggets that maybe the U.S., together with Pakistani forces, Afghan troops, are getting closer to finding Osama bin Laden. Is that your sense?

FEINSTEIN: Well, I've read the newspapers. I can certainly speak to that point of view.

It's clear that there is an effort going on to intensify the search for him. I think we need to keep this up. I think it is really important that this man be brought to justice. He is the titular head and more than that, really, responsible for the basic structure of what happened on 9/11, and for the cell distribution that exists in many countries across the world.

So, the ability to expedite the search by using special operations people, I think is the right thing to do, and I think every American strongly supports this, whether you're a Democrat or a Republican.

BLITZER: Congressman Dreier, at the same time, you point out correctly there have been no successful terror strike on U.S. soil since 9/11.

But listen to what the CIA director, George Tenet, pointedly told the Congress this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE TENET, DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE: Even catastrophic attacks on the scale of 9/11 remain within al Qaeda's reach. Make no mistake. These plots are hatched abroad, but they target U.S. soil and those of our allies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You're on the Homeland Security Committee in the House of Representatives. How worried are you that al Qaeda could strike with a catastrophic attack almost at any moment?

DREIER: Well, of course that exists constantly. I mean, that's why, again, I get back to the speech that John Kerry gave on Friday, in which he said that he would basically win the war on terrorism, and that we're not.

We so far have had success, but capturing Osama bin Laden would be helpful, although President Bush has said this is not about one man. We know there is an entire network, including in Iraq, that al Qaeda has, and so I believe that we are living daily with that threat. That's why we have a Department of Homeland Security. That's why we've redoubled the efforts that we have.

But we have to this point been successful, and we have-and this president's leadership has in fact kept this terrorist threat off our soil, and over in other parts of the world.

BLITZER: Senator Feinstein, let me read to you from an excerpt, an editorial in the Los Angeles Times this past Thursday.

"Though John F. Kennedy took full responsibility for the Bay of Pigs in 1961, he also sacked CIA Director Allen Dulles and his deputy for failing to provide adequate intelligence. The moment has come for similar action with CIA Director George J. Tenet."

Do you believe he should be sacked?

FEINSTEIN: Well, I'll tell you what I do believe. I believe that we had a massive intelligence failure. At least that's clear so far. We have found no chemical, no biological weapons, no deployment of weapons, no large stores, no sense of immediacy of their use, and I think that's been made pretty clear.

Now, that might change. What surprises me is that, in view of this lack of finding so far, that the agency isn't taking a much more active stance, a much more proactive stance in reorganizing.

It has become clear to me, in my service on the committee, that we have a very flawed intelligence structure. You have the secretary of defense that controls about 60 percent of the dollars, seven of the 14 intelligence agencies. You have no structural head over the entire intelligence community.

BLITZER: Senator Feinstein, let me get back to the question. Should Tenet go?

FEINSTEIN: Well, I don't know that it's the right thing to do right now, but I would say this: Unless I see some extraordinary activity very soon, my answer would have to be yes.

BLITZER: All right. And do you agree, Tenet should have to...

DREIER: No, let me just say, that's obviously a decision of the president of the United States. The president of the United States has said, as recently as just a few days ago, that he is supportive of George Tenet, believing that he's doing a good job. And I work closely with Porter Goss, the chairman of the Intelligence Committee.

But I will tell you...

BLITZER: Hold on one second. Listen, Congressman Dreier, to what Jimmy Carter, former president of the United States, said this week about the Bush administration, the president's decision to go to war against Iraq. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I spent about three months of my life working every way I could against initiating a war in Iraq, which I think it's probably one of the worst mistakes internationally that our country has ever made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: "One of the worst mistakes internationally that our country has ever made." Jimmy Carter, saying about the administration's decision, which at least looks like now was based on some flawed intelligence.

DREIER: Well, I will tell you, Dianne correctly said this might change. We obviously have a commission that this president has put into place, Wolf, that is going to be looking at that issue. But, clearly, to, in any way, say that the world is not-or imply, as President Carter does there-the world is not a better, safer place with Saddam Hussein gone is what what one could infer from the statement that he made. And I think that's just plain wrong.

BLITZER: Let me dramatically shift gears and ask a question that's important to everyone in California, and everyone around the United States, but especially in California, Senator Feinstein.

Based on what's happening in San Francisco right now with these gay marriages continuing, is it time to stop-for the mayor of San Francisco, Gavin Newsom, to stop these marriages?

FEINSTEIN: Well, I think this: The matter is now in the hands of the court. That's where I thought it should be from the beginning. I don't see a mayor as an arbiter of what's constitutional and what isn't. A mayor takes a pledge to carry out the law and should, and none of us like every single law.

Our job is if we don't like it to change it, but the people had voted just a couple of years ago on a proposition called Proposition 22, which very clearly put before the electorate of California that marriage is between a man and a woman. Therefore, if he believes it's unconstitutional, the place to take it is to the Supreme Court.

And, I mean, I regret that he took the action, because I think it sets in a kind of chain of events which is unfortunate, but now, I would be very hopeful. And I believe that the Supreme Court of the state will hear the case. I hope sooner rather than later.

BLITZER: Congressman Dreier, you disagree with the president in a rare disagreement you have with the white house. You don't think he should push for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

DREIER: I think marriage should be between a man and woman. I supported the Defense of Marriage Act, but actually, before I get into that, let me just say since Dianne mentioned Proposition 22, propositions 57 and 58, which are on the ballot this coming Tuesday, are very important to getting our state going again. I appreciate Dianne's support of that effort there.

But I just believe that amending the U.S. Constitution should be a last rather than a first resort. I think that what, as Dianne's correctly says, what has been done in California and Massachusetts we believe to be-in New York now, we believe to be wrong. But I believe that what we should do, and I've constantly opposed amendments on flag burning and other things, I'm a classical conservative when it comes to the U.S. Constitution.

I just want us to make sure that we exhaust every possible-look at every other way to deal with this before we go to amending the constitution.

BLITZER: On California, Senator Feinstein, looks like it's going to vote for John Kerry. At least all the polls going into Super Tuesday show that. You're smiling. I assume you want John Kerry to be the Democratic nominee.

FEINSTEIN: Oh, yes, I do. And what's been amazing, I was with him in the Bay Area Friday night, and what's been amazing is the sense of people coming together all over the state. I think there is a clear groundswell. I think Super Tuesday is a bellwether.

I think John Edwards has waged a highly principled and fine campaign, but I think Super Tuesday will make it clear. And I would be hopeful that the Democratic primary could end at that point, and we would be able to get on the road to fashioning a general election campaign.

BLITZER: I'll give Congressman Dreier the last word. California, it looks like the Democrats have an upper hand going in on a possible race between President Bush and John Kerry. How formidable of an opponent would John Kerry be to the president?

DREIER: Well, obviously, he's a formidable opponent, and I will acknowledge the fact the California is a difficult state for us to win. But if you look at the success that Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is having right now in his support of President Bush, I have little doubt whatsoever that California has the potential to be in play a we head towards this election.

And I think that these issues of national security, economic growth-you know, we're getting very positive news in the president's favor because of the policies that he's been pursuing, and I think those will inure to the benefit of Californians.

BLITZER: All right.

DREIER: And I think that we are going win the state.

BLITZER: It'll be a good debate. And David Dreier I'm sure will be a good surrogate for President Bush. And Dianne Feinstein will be a good surrogate for whoever the Democratic nominee is.

Thanks to both of you for joining us.